Hard wooden floors, starched uniforms, straight lines and funny postures punctuated with cries of ‘OSU SENSEI’, or,’ YES SIFU’: to many a grappler's eyes, the world of traditional martial arts seems like the complete opposite side of the martial art spectrum. Some feel that traditional arts are out of touch with real fighting and that NHB matches have proven so. So it takes an interesting mindset to embrace both systems. Seymour Yang talked to ninjutsu master, and BJJ brown belt, Simon Yeo.

Q: Tell me about your background in martial arts?
A: I have been training martial arts since 1973. I started with Judo, then Kyokushinkai Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Bujinkan Ninjutsu and BJJ. I have a 12th Degree black belt under Masaaki Hatsumi, the Ninjutsu Grandmaster, a 2nd Dan in Classic Jiu Jitsu and a brown belt in BJJ under Roger Gracie. I have been training in the Bujinkan since 1988 and BJJ since 2000.

Q: What got you interested in BJJ?
A: After watching Royce fighting in the early UFC’s I attended the first UK seminar that Royce did and after sparring with him I realised that I had a huge hole in my skill set, even though I had studied Judo 3 times a week for 6 years.

Q; So there you are, an experienced martial artist in your first BJJ lesson, what happened?
A: My first BJJ experience was sparring with Royce and being choked out from behind while I went for a wrist lock I couldn’t get, because my hands kept slipping. I knew he would catch me, but I was shocked at how quickly it happened. After that I was hooked. I had to understand the methodology. I wasn’t happy to study a martial art for years hoping I didn’t bump into any Brazilians.

Q: Ninjutsu and BJJ are so different, what aspects do you see that they both share?
A: On the face of it Ninjutsu and BJJ are very different. In both you have to start by learning the dos and do nots. Generally in both you start with poor natural instincts, as more often than not the necessary movements are counter intuitive. However once you have learnt these laws, things are pretty similar and by using biomechanics you can see how to manipulate the opponents body into weaker positions and capitalise on it.
I now always try to look for the similarities rather than the differences. For example the need to flow from one technique to the next, or Nagare, to catch the opponent, rather than just insist on one technique.
I also view training in ground fighting as reuniting the complete Ju-Jutsu skill sets, so I will know both ground and stand up ju-jutsu. It is possible people haven’t trained like this for more than 100 years.

Q: What can a traditional MA offer to a BJJ student?
A: I think the traditional styles I teach really help with the stand up, self defence aspects of BJJ. The importance of breaking the opponents balance and or physical structure before applying strikes and or locks and throws. I also think the knowledge of pressure points is also useful, although I wouldn’t recommend this for competition use.
The traditional mind set and strategy applies well to the self defence part of BJJ, but not so well to the competition aspect. In sport the objective is point scoring and in self defence the point is survival. As I have previously mentioned before BJJ really instils in you, the importance of flowing from technique to technique, since at a higher level of BJJ this is the only way to play. The other important aspect of BJJ is working with a non-compliant opponent. I really think this is vital to making techniques work for real and for many reasons this is lacking in many traditional styles. I also think the physical conditioning in BJJ is excellent and again often missing in traditional styles.

Q: Are there conflicts between the two styles, in terms of mindset and philosophies?
A: The biggest conflict is not between the styles, but between the aspects of sport and self defence. I think the sport aspect is excellent and the participants are great athletes. However once you start to apply rules the slant of the conflict changes and the practitioner can get away with using techniques that would get them killed in a real situation. Within this you have rules against being non aggressive. This takes away one of the most important skills of being able to control the distance between you and your opponent and forcing them to make the first move. If you keep a distance where the opponent has to step before he can strike or grab you, you take away the need for speed. If you can force him to make the initial attack, by its nature it will but him off balance in a few directions. If you can break the opponent’s balance or structure you negate the need for power.

Q: What are the weaknesses you see in traditional systems?
A: The traditional arts that lack the physical contact commonly found in many sporting arts, I think is not right. There are a lot of people training in traditional arts that think their art is so deadly that it can’t be used in competition. I think Royce showed us the reality of this type of thinking in 1993. There are nonetheless still a lot of people out there who have not heeded this lesson.
I do understand that by having rules you take away the teeth of the original style and why it was created - you can’t have sparring where people lose eyes and are bitten and scratched. So there is a balance to find. This is why I don’t meddle with either styles I teach, but use them to get the best qualities from each art. I don’t want to create rules in the traditional style I teach and I don’t want to introduce dangerous techniques into the BJJ. I do try and approach my BJJ from a submissions perspective rather than point scoring though.

Q: What comments do you get when you reveal to your traditional MA colleagues that you also train BJJ?
A: No one from each school comments much on what I do. There are a few people in the traditional style I think who feel I have sold out and am creating some kind of hybrid style, but this is not the case. I think martial arts need to evolve with the times. In fact Hatsumi Soke the Japanese Grand Master told a class I was in years ago to look at what the Gracies are doing with their art. If anything it feels like I am taking both arts back in time to try and capture something from history.

Q: The public seem to be fascinated