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How to escape from the scarf position

    Sat, 2006-10-07 10:55 — KibunInc

    I roll with a heavy weight wrestler who has about 22 years experience. It is a good match up of my JJ against his wrestling. The problem I have is when he can to a T out position (Scarf position). Once he is there I can not roll him or work out of the backside. He has excellent base. Any ideas on how to counter. I know the answer of "Do not let him get in that position" but he is good at what he does. :eek:

    cshudson's picture

    man wish i could help i seem to need help with this also, im not that great getting out of these side and scarf position, but i did learn a ie escape from sidemount last thursday, but stil nt good at it

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Hey let me know the side mount escape. It may be one that I do not know. I am always up for learning something new. :cool:

    Your rating: None
    cshudson's picture

    its just one where you kind of bridge into them rather than straight up and cross your feet so that you come up in a wrestler position, where your opponent is sprawled on top of you, Sorry i cant really explain it without actually doing it.

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    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    yeah i was taught a side escape like that too....first you put your near arm around his waist area and your far arm around his neck (without gripping anything,...just to push) you bridge into them instead of straight up (in other words onto the shoulder thats nearest your opponent) at the same time you push back with your arms at those positions i already said...then you sort of twist a little into them and push yourself out a little and then do another bridge but to the opposite side to keep the pressure on him and then you keep twisting until you get out and you end up on your knees with the possibilty of taking his back...
    another one is to put your near arm pushing on his waist and your far arm pushing on his shoulder and you just shrimp out
    and another one is you put your forearm up into his neck which makes him move up and it gives you enough space to bring you leg around and armbar him...i really like this last one because he doesnt expect you to try a submission since hes in the dominating postion...

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    cshudson's picture

    very nice....like the post, I would consider my self really new to jiu jitsu, i have only been taken since about dec 05 or jan 06 cant really remember the exact month and i have a hard time with staying caught in the side mount so i love all the info i can get on this subject...ME and my bro have puzzle teeth mats that i bought that make a 10ft by 10ft square that we put in the garage and we had a 3-4 hour session today on good position and side control. I showed him the knee on belly... Also im new to the gi only about a week into it, so he was teaching me gi chokes, i started with no-gi. sorry for it being so long. :D

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    yeah i got some of those puzzle mats too....its more for me just to practice movements with right now though cuz i dont have anyone to practice with....im trying to convince my cousin who lives around the block to help me out with that.....

    Your rating: None
    cshudson's picture

    Where i live at its weird not to have a least 1 or 2 friends that take a grappling sport, they seem to always want to roll, we usually ever so often get the mats out and have a grappling tournament between us 3-4 people.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    just wondering if there might exist any really good dvd sets that deal only with escaping from things?

    any suggestions would help.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    barr45's picture

    Take a look at Gustavo Machado's Great Escapes and Counters. Also look on aesopian.com. He might have something that would help.

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    lucifer_z28's picture

    if u mean scarf and not side control/mount
    u can
    1- rotate legs away from opponet
    2-push against there neck with your forearm
    3-throw far side leg over head
    4-cup elbow lay back
    good scarf defence not side control hope u understand

    Your rating: None
    Subdude's picture

    Ditto on Gustavo Machado's Great Escapes & Counters DVD. It is very good....

    The escape I use from the scarf hold position when all the others fail is this. You basically grab tight around the opponent's waist/upper body. Instead of bridging into him, bridge and try to bring him forward so that his head touches the mat. Once you have his weight forward, it is MUCH easier to bridge and roll him. It is a very simple escape but works wonders for me, even against much bigger guys with a good base.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Thanks for all of the replies. I have been working the escapes. I still hate getting caught in that position. :mad:

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    this thread actually helps out alot. escapes is something that this beginner needs a lot of!!!! these are all terrific suggestions. actually implemented one of them recently!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    dandon's picture

    lorenzodamarith wrote:
    hello,

    just wondering if there might exist any really good dvd sets that deal only with escaping from things?

    any suggestions would help.

    thanks.
    gustavo machado has a dvd out. great escapes is the name of it. it is very good.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    greetings and thanks to dandon for that! will check it out. have seen gustavomachado fight! he is a favorite.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    I was going to do an only escape DVD but I have way too many techniques to wonder where to begin. Then on the other hand I have trouble with the scarf position. I did put some exscapes on Volume 1. KibunInc.com

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    KibunInc wrote:
    I was going to do an only escape DVD but I have way too many techniques to wonder where to begin. Then on the other hand I have trouble with the scarf position. I did put some exscapes on Volume 1. KibunInc.com

    I've got that one brother. It is very good.

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    Yep, yep meeee too! :rolleyes:

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    well, with regard to escapes, popular opinion shows kibuninc vol.1 to be the way and the light.....

    sounds good. gee, wonder where to get kibuninc videos? what to do, what to do......

    hey kibuninc? any idea where to get kibuninc videos? where does kibuninc buy kibuninc videos? just wondering....

    heeheehee. a little 2007 humor.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    Whats the name of the Gustavo machado dvd??? sounds very interesting...
    Is it possible to buy this one and Kibun's video here at on the mat???

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    thanks for the compliments. I wish volume 1 had turned out more like the other volumes did ( As I did not have as much help with the first one). I would like to see the Machado escape video.

    The wonderful thing about JJ is I learn new escapes and holds all of the time and I just wonder how did I ever roll before I learned a new move. I hope to train until I am 80.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    agreed. kibuninc officially has our permission to train until he is eighty.

    yeeeeeehaaaaaaa!!!!!! high ho geritol, awaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    dandon's picture

    the gustavo dvd is called "The Great Escapes". it is a very detailed dvd that gives you numerous options for escaping many submissions. i believe there is a clip on his website www.gustavomachado.com

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    dandon wrote:
    the gustavo dvd is called "The Great Escapes". it is a very detailed dvd that gives you numerous options for escaping many submissions. i believe there is a clip on his website www.gustavomachado.com

    Thanks for the link. :D

    Your rating: None
    rshapiro's picture

    My Two Cents

    One thing to remember is there are actually two escapes from this position:

    1) If he DOES NOT have your arm trapped, then scoot your hips behind his and lock your arms around his body. Your hips must be parallel with his hips in order for this to work. Once you are parallel to him, bridge onto your neck and roll over your head, bringing him 45 degrees over your free shoulder.

    2) If he does have your arm trapped (the scarf hold), then use you free arm to push against his face (not your trapped arm, or he will arm triangle you). Once you are putting pressure on his face scoot your hips in and grapevine his upper leg with yours. Continue the pressure, pushing him into the mat, and work to his back.

    Hope this helps.

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    Anonymous's picture

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    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    echo that. thanks for the link. this helps.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    perhaps kibuninc could do a dvd series of escapes only. just positional escapes. like one dvd for various mounts, one dvd for various guards. then a series for submission escapes. one dvd for arm attacks, one dvd for leg attacks, one dvd for neck attacks.

    oooooh yeeeaaaah (isaachayes type voice).....

    whattayasay?

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    that way, the sheer number of techniques becomes bite sized chunks with detail. yes? yes. this is what kibuninc will do for us.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    at reasonable prices, right?

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    sambosteve's picture

    Hey guys, don't post here really but, read a lot.

    Regarding the original scarf escape question, here are some tips that work well for me if I can't bridge and roll him...

    This is to take his back or escape out the back side.

    1) Use your far leg to generate rotation. Be sure to swing it up and over, not along the floor. Get as close to his back as you can.

    2) While doing this, be sure to use your elbow (free one - same side as outer leg) against the back of his head - simultaneously with the leg/body rotation. Do not push your whole arm through/against his head...there is a good armbar reversal here for him to take if you extend your arm. Just use your forearm/elbow.

    3) Most importantly, before you rotate, take a big inhale...then exhale as you turn out with your leg/arm rotation. The inhale will create expansion of your torso...so when you exhale/rotate your body there will be some extra space to move. When you do rotate your body, it should be fast and sudden like an alligator rolls. Be sure to pull your locked arm free when you trun. You should be turning in place, not rolling toward him or away from him.

    4) You many need to do this s few times if the guy has a tight scarf. Once you get loose, you can try taking his back or coming to your knees for the escape.

    I hope this is clear :)

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    I understand that move and it works often except against realy good wrestlers. They tend to scoot around to avoid the wrap around in order for me to throw him. Also I have a problem with them holding under my trapped arm in order to control me.

    I understand that the best way is not to let them get me such a deep hold but escpape before the hold is applied. I was just wondering how to defeat the hold once it is sunk fairly deep.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    sambosteve is the dude. some of this escape are not clear, as not enough is known about grappling by lorenzodamarith. this will change soon. heehee.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    sambosteve's picture

    I hear ya about the wrap around with the leg. But, my intention is not really to do that because it ties up my leg which takes away my major method of movement generation. I prefer to keep trying to turn.

    Also, if you are attempting to bridge and roll - really hard - try faking with a push in the opposite direction before a bridge and roll over your shoulder.

    Having said that, scarf if tough if it is sunk in. I will often wait for him to move and give me an opening.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    sambosteve wrote:
    I hear ya about the wrap around with the leg. But, my intention is not really to do that because it ties up my leg which takes away my major method of movement generation. I prefer to keep trying to turn.

    Also, if you are attempting to bridge and roll - really hard - try faking with a push in the opposite direction before a bridge and roll over your shoulder.

    Having said that, scarf if tough if it is sunk in. I will often wait for him to move and give me an opening.

    Thanks I will give this a try.

    Your rating: None
    sambosteve's picture

    Underdog...too many forums, too little time :)

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    wow, Steve! im glad you ventured onto the mat! Good to see ya!

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Thanks for the techniques. :cool:

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