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training diary response

    Mon, 2007-01-15 22:31 — lorenzodamarith

    hello,

    this is the thread to put responses in. it will make the reading of the diary easier.

    thanks.

    KibunInc's picture

    Sorry I already put my response on the diary page. Here is a much shorter version. Cool, sounds good, stretch before classs it good. There is that short enough from earlier response?

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    agreed kibuninc. there was time and space before class to warm up. they just don't take up class time with it. several hours of nothing but grappling. it was quite..... awesomecoolexcellentbosonovaradicalbitchinextrabitchinsuperbitchin!!!!!

    oh, it was bitchin!!!!

    if kibuninc or anyone cares to make recommendations (like stretches, or focus or whatever, this is the place....).

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Glad to see you posting here again. I do just the basic stretches. Head to knee, calf stretch, roll my neck out.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    anything for developmental stretching? no flexibility whatsoever. none. really. cannot even do handcuff position without assistance (touch hands together behind waist).

    yes. it is in fact that ridiculous.

    suggestions?

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    Where ya training LSD?

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    yeppeekaiyay shaolinbushido!!! this was a training group that appears to be unofficial. they come from many schools and train. there are regular meetings but apparently the faces change from day to day. they just come as they can. about a half dozen (rough estimate) are regulars (4-5 nights weekly.

    they also have some stuff on the weekends and daytimes (have not seen that though).

    was checking out a school and a guy there overheard and extended an invite to go train. its super cheap and the instruction is good. they are high level taking time to teach here. of course guys like the machados or gokor know more, but these guys are qualified and they love it.

    will be returning tomorrow (same time and place).

    it was incredible. during live rolling, they were doing techniques LSD has never seen (under live fire conditions). mma style (not available to noobs) a guy actually finished by coil lock!!!!! strange setup. when info is available (terminology for setup and execution), will pass it along here for you.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    Sounds like u found a place that you like being a part of. Good for u.
    Good luck.

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    Cool, glad to see you finnaly got on the mats.

    hip openers are THE BEST stretches for a BJJer in my oppinion......im veeery flexible by nature (hahaha boys, im that person who can touch there face to there knee in half butterfly and with legs extended out) (oh yea...haha) lol, anyway...just have fun and there are days or weeks were you feel like your in a rut and dont think you can do it, but you can. Have fun and learn!

    (haha told ya I was a freak mind body and soul...lol)

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    underdog wrote:
    Cool, glad to see you finnaly got on the mats.

    hip openers are THE BEST stretches for a BJJer in my oppinion......im veeery flexible by nature (hahaha boys, im that person who can touch there face to there knee in half butterfly and with legs extended out) (oh yea...haha) lol, anyway...just have fun and there are days or weeks were you feel like your in a rut and dont think you can do it, but you can. Have fun and learn!

    (haha told ya I was a freak mind body and soul...lol)

    hello,

    hahahahaha!!! but you are OUR freak!!!

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    a bit sore today, but will be fine. also going to sign up with the machados. they have guys that are IIIIIINSAAAAAAAANE!!!

    have rolled (introductory lessons) at rogermachado, riganmachado, jeanjacquesmachado.

    ryangregg taught at riganmachado academy, jeanjacquesmachado taught his own, haleel(last name unknown) taught at rogermachado academy.

    also like tenrijudodojo. they are quite good. peaceful atmosphere, really aggressive style. direct.

    riganmachado has a guy that teaches takedowns and wrestling. he taught at
    the olympic training center for 4 years. wow. not sure the name (possibly named kennysmith). at each of the schools, they seem to be incorporating judo style throws and wrestling style takedowns into the curriculum 9if this is the right word). visited each school several times. guess what everyone?

    not once was the closed guard to be found. they do all sorts of guards. lots of something called butterfly guard. this was the one we worked on last night. also "x" guard. is seen alot now. this is an example of aggressive posture. the player putting the x guard to work appears to be winning. if jeanjacquesmachado does it, your boned.

    when LSD first came here, asked alot of questions about who taught what and such (most of you probably remember this). part of what that was about was the search for a bjj place that didn't teach the lay and pray game. wanted aggressive. well guess what folks. FOUND IT!!!!!

    haleel, ryangregg and some others have said that in the last year or so, tha game has changed and the machados are adapting. have found technical nirvana!!!! and the integration of judo and wrestling and striking.

    have been to the mountain top, and it is good!!!!

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Cool sounds like you are having fun, this means you will learn alot. keep us updated on the training.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    KibunInc wrote:
    Cool sounds like you are having fun, this means you will learn alot. keep us updated on the training.

    hello,

    absolutely. echo that on all counts. that is the purpose of the diary.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    Be sure to let us know the first time that u choke/submit someone in rolling. Nothin like a good chokin.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    silent assassin wrote:
    Be sure to let us know the first time that u choke/submit someone in rolling. Nothin like a good chokin.

    hello,

    agreed. however, noticed something last night. not sure this will make sense.

    rolling live, the instructions were to go live go for submissions (a couple were shown to LSD). found that instead of concetrating on submission, concentrated instead on attempting to control position and transition (as this is what we worked on in class). submission was in mind, but was more interested in getting from point a to point b AND back again. not so successful (first time and all), but everyone said that LSD rolled like a pro.

    what they meant (as they put it), LSD does not sharre many habits with beginners. tended to always attempt facing opponents rather than "get away". they also pointed out that the "3 dimensional nature" of grappling did not seem to be a problem. told them that many ufc, pride and grappling fights have been watched. so some things are obvious (like not giving up the back).

    to this, they said that LSD possesses innate sense of distance and space. everyone also commented that for a guy who has been shown one position (pummeling butterfly guard) did well. they also noted a lack of "noob panic". very relaxed and lacking overt usage of physical power.

    while the complimentary nature of the comments is plain, not sure what some of it means. that is, nothing to compare it to.

    for one, space and distance.... just attempted to do what the instructor showed us in class.

    for two, relaxed? just out of shape. hard to move when you can't breath.

    for three? 3rd dimension not a problem? well, did have the benefit of watching fights and having a vague idea of something. someone who has never seen a fight would have more trouble? probably.

    did not get a submission, but most said overall "instincts" are strong.

    hope so.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    thats great that your having such a good time lorenzo, keep up the good work....
    I know that especially at the begining its far more important to be able to have good positioning as underdog stated, but yeah i remember when i got my first tap i was happy as hell...lol after a while i started to think about it and wasnt as happy cuz i realized that i didnt pull it off cuz i had good set up or any of that, it was just because it was an ezekial choke he didnt see me doing it and when he realized it was too late...I was happy about my first triangle though just because it seems to my favorite submission....but again, it wasnt my set up, it was just that the guy walked right into it when he tried to pass my guard....what sucks is when a higher belt gets tapped out by a lower rank and gets pissed.....thats how a guy in my class got injured...that kind of crap shouldnt happen

    i cant bask in the glory of rolling with black belts, since i thinnk there is only like 2 in all of mexico...lol

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    oh yeah, i saw you putting up things about the machados...what have you heard of Carlos Machado??? i ask because im am going to be in dallas for feb-march and am planning to train there....

    PS superfreak superfreak, shes superfreaky yow! lol

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    apparently he is the eldest of "the" machadoes we are familiar with. jeanjacquesmachado says he is the best instructor of them. very technical. it is said he has a way of teaching techniques so that one understands not only the how, but why a technique works AND why one is doing it.

    riganmachado and rogermachado have mentioned him in much the same way (though they do not quantify who is best among them). they say his students are incredible. a blackbelt of his, timburrill said that they (instructors from carlosmachado camp) want thier students to know why a technique is being done (expected outcome).... part of the being several steps ahead a blackbelt strives for. apparently, there is some emphasis on doing techniques slowly while live rolling. it seems they believe that if you cannot do a particular technique in slow motion (under fire), then you cannot do that technique properly.

    from the sound of things (and watching timburrill) one is inclined to believe that money spent training with carlosmachado is money well spent. if it matters to you, the machados generally seem intolerant of bad attitudes. those either adapt and get nice, or wash out. so you will find really great people there.

    hope this helps. let us know how it goes!!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    YOW!!!! Supa freeeeky!

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    super freak, super freak, she super freakaaayooowwww!!!

    somewhere in the distance, rickjames just recieved a royalty check......

    hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    Yaknow....I tapped my first black belt (for real) about a month ago...whats the big deal with that??? Why is that everyones big goal??? i dont get it....

    Id rather roll with someone waaaaay better than me and be able to hold them in my guard or prevent a sub from side control...or whatever...for 6 min and have the round end and have that person tell me i did really good. To me thats a tap. Does that make any sence? prolly not....

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    Rolling with someone better than u is always good. If you're better than everyone that you're rolling with u won't get any better.

    How long have u been training underdog?

    Who was the blackbelt? Who did he train under?

    What's your belt level?

    My reason for asking all the questions is that all blackbelts are not the same in skill level. Two of the guys that I do most of my Jiu Jitsu training with are blackbelts under Carlos Gracie Jr. And they're don't get tapped by ANY of the guys that come thru our place (many UFC fighters included).

    I saw that u were just kinda gett'n into Jiu Jitsu not very long ago. If you tapped your teacher or blackbelt (4-real) that may be a reason for concern. It would be for me if I were a noob & I tapped a blacklbelt/teacher that was responsible to train others. I'm not sure if I would have faith in that person anymore to train me.

    A great goal should be to try to improve a little & be the best that THEY can be at the art that they study IMO. Most guys 1st tap is a good day for them.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    underdog?

    hello,

    wherefore art thou?

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    Who?

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    who else?

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    Never head of em' :rolleyes:....

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    apologies... did not mean to bother you, sir......

    hahahahahahaha!!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    oh yeah...was wondering about 2 things that i dont what they mean...
    what is pummeling???
    what is IMO??

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    Gerald Rhoades wrote:
    oh yeah...was wondering about 2 things that i dont what they mean...
    what is pummeling???
    what is IMO??

    Gerald Rhoades,
    Pummeling=Getting hit/roughed up/etc...
    IMO=In my opinion.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Pummeling can be getting hit or roughed up.

    In a JJ class it can also be a training evercise in which you and a partner work on shooting your arms inside of the your oponnents arms. This is usually done with little resistance and each of you go back and forthin a fluid motion. This can also be done with your legs.

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    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    pummeling could be thought of as a flow drill for getting underhooks, while simultaneously changing stance to keep balance.

    the arm and foot on the same side go foreward when that hand is "swimming" in to get underhook. hand will come to rest on scapula of opponent.

    so both players will swim thier right hand and shift thier right foot foreward. both players will shift left hand to grip just behind opponents elbow. at the same time, the left foot of both players shifts back.

    the whole process seems to involve creating just enough space to swim an arm in, and then the shift in footwork assists in re-closing that space and maintaining balance. if feet are not shifted properly, then the "swimming" arm ends up extended across opponents body, leaving that player easy to knock down.

    pummeling may be associated with a beating, because it can be quite rough. usually it is done smoothly, to train takedowns (if standing) and sweeps (if in guard). when the space (mentioned earlier) is closed, it can be done very fast, chest to chest in a thumping manner. this closes the space rapidly (preventing opponent from utilizing it) and the impact assists in upsetting the opponents balance (maximizing ease of takedown).

    mind you, these are observations based on a single class. others here could doubtlessly add volumes of info on this movement.

    if someone here uses a phrase like "i'll pummel you", they indicate some sort of beating. in the LSD training diary, it referres to the above excercise.

    hope this helps!!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    What if they say they will pummel you while doing the pummel drill? :cool:

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    ok, thanks...was wondering about the pummeling since you mentioned it in the description of your class....
    was wondering about IMO because i always see it and forget to ask what it means....

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    glad it helped, but, it would be advisable to seek other council as well, as this is the laymans view of pummeling. some of the others here could definitely give you a better explaination of the hows and whys.

    happy pummeling!!!!

    just don't get pummeled while you do it!!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Cool new workout. Passing the guard is a good thing to pratice for if you stay in someones it is only a matter of time before you are submitted.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    thanks to kibuninc!! this is exactly what they said. apparently, since the first lesson involved being in the guard, they wanted to demonstrate that it is not necessary to stay there. this makes sense. just wrote a response to a thread by geraldrhodes about this very thing.

    (side note here... check out the thread by geraldrhodes entitled "whats your favorite grappling book?" and sound off)

    one of the books LSD chose is "the guard, moriera". it demonstrates the guard as a very dynamic device. also demonstrates its usefulness as a weapon. therefore, lessons on passing the guard are very interesting at this point!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    have been investigating the guard for several weeks now. had no idea how many variant guards exist!!!! the guard as a concept has taken on massive proportions in this skull!!!! yes, everyone knows the guard is important, but had no idea how important, or how deep that importance goes.

    as a beginner, this is a very very exciting area of research. it will be interesting (and possibly quite entertaining) to see how it all fits together.

    have seen on many sites the question "how long to a black belt" or "why so long to black belt". it is becomming increasingly evident that achieving this level should take 12 years or longer.

    royharris posited the idea that if you attend classes, you learn techniques (which is good), how many of those exact classes must you attend before you have practiced said techniques to get really proficient at them. he mentioned a specific individual that took privates with royharris for 5 days and they only worked on one single technique (and only scratched the surface. it was a spinning arm bar (or something like that, not sure the name right now).

    getting back to the guard. noticed when describing things from our classes, the guard was the most difficult to describe. it then occured that the guard must be a great deal more complex than an arm bar. so how many classes must be taken on the guard alone to get good at using it? yes, many years.

    as something of an armchair engineer, the technical aspects of the guard are of huge interest. it will be very satisfying to spend years on end just discecting the guard (and mount, and clinch and attacks and stuff).

    have any of you actually gotten bored with the guard? only asking because someone (out here in the physical world) recently said something to that effect. was not a part of the full conversation, so not sure why this was said. any thoughts?

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    silent assassin wrote:
    Rolling with someone better than u is always good. If you're better than everyone that you're rolling with u won't get any better.

    How long have u been training underdog?

    Who was the blackbelt? Who did he train under?

    What's your belt level?

    My reason for asking all the questions is that all blackbelts are not the same in skill level. Two of the guys that I do most of my Jiu Jitsu training with are blackbelts under Carlos Gracie Jr. And they're not gett'n tapped by ANY of the guys that come thru our place (many UFC fighters included).

    I saw that u were just kinda gett'n into Jiu Jitsu not very long ago. If you tapped your teacher or blackbelt (4-real) that may be a reason for concern. It would be for me if I were a noob & I tapped a blacklbelt/teacher that was responsible to train others. I'm not sure if I would have faith in that person anymore to train me.

    close to 7 months now....

    the black belt was my instructor, (1st dan) tom ellis- under Mario Yamasaki (4th dan)

    im a white with tecnically 3 stripes...*rolls eyes* I got my third and now my instructior is gonna take it away if i dont win at GQ....

    i taped him when he was dog tired.....still it was a mistake on his part to give up his arm....you should have seen it...woo i was like greased lightning....best tap to date in my mind...very smooth technique on my part.

    But too...i go with my brown belt instructio and he crushes me with his weight...i still use my skill and can hold him in guard or whatever....

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Yes being abe to hold ones own is always good. most fighters are happy when they first tap someone. After you have done it a bunch of times then you tend to think of other tihngs are more inportant.

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    You took the words right off my typing hand....

    Being a GIRL makes it harder....all the young punks (<-- and thats from someplace elce) think they can just tap me out and use all there power....thats when i play dirty...lol

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    underdog wrote:
    Cool, glad to see you finnaly got on the mats.

    hip openers are THE BEST stretches for a BJJer in my oppinion......im veeery flexible by nature (hahaha boys, im that person who can touch there face to there knee in half butterfly and with legs extended out) (oh yea...haha) lol, anyway...just have fun and there are days or weeks were you feel like your in a rut and dont think you can do it, but you can. Have fun and learn!

    (haha told ya I was a freak mind body and soul...lol)

    U so CRAAAAAZY!!!

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    Awwwww thanks.....

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    You're very welcome Ms. Freaky-Freaky.

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    You prolly wont be surprised that my nickname in Portuguese is "besta" -beast in english. lol

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    Besta's "Real freaky naughty"-White Goodman.

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