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Favorite stand-up/ground game.

    Sun, 2007-01-21 22:51 — silent assassin

    I won't ask the normal "Who's the best". Everyone has there own opinion.

    My questions are-

    1) Who's stand-up do u like best & why?

    2) Who's ground-game do u like best & why?

    I would guess that u may like more than 1 person on each question but no riding the fence. ONLY 1 SELECTION ON EACH QUESTION.

    (Guys that are currently in competition)

    Tagged: On The Mat

    cshudson's picture

    Standing----My opinion Chuck Lidell

    Ground----My Opinion Eddie Bravo

    Your rating: None
    lucifer_z28's picture

    ya eddie is the man hes my fav straight jj guy

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    If you're talkin current guys I'll go with wanderlei and marcelo garcia. I have a buncha buds who virtually HATE wanderlei's standup but he just keeps beating up guys as he's done for over a decade now. I believe that the best striking for mma is prolly not the type of punching a boxer does and must include expertise in the clinch and the use of knees. He lost to Mirko but hell ... Mirko's bigger and stronger. He should have took that one to the ground. I know their weights were comparable for that fight but anyone who's not a nuthugger knows that Wanderlei was not fighting at his most effective weight. he should have been at or around 205 and fighting a guy the same size.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    a question? shaolinbushido? the striking of boxers not good for mma? figured striking is striking, and a boxer is a specialist in pugilism. granted, not an mma fighter, but boxer's skills are insufficient for mma?

    did not realize that.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    Well, let me clarify what I meant. Most boxers shoot out crisp straight punches that don't appear to be leveraged like Liddell or Wanderlei. All of my friends who happen to be Thaiboxing experts harp on and on about how both Liddell and Wanderlei punch "wrong" and yet they are perhaps the most successful MMAists in terms of being devastating and effective punchers. They've demonstrated this over an extended period of time while many of the textbook boxers have struggled in terms of achieving success in MMA with their striking.

    They are actually salivatiing at the prospects of K-1 fighter CroCop finally dethroning Chuck and "proving" wht they've said all along ... that he punches "wrong".

    I lol just typing this ... he's unbeaten in the past three years and stopped ALL of his opponents and he sure as hell didn't do it via mata leon'. He ktfo for the most part.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    thanks to shaolinbushido for that info. never regarded them as "wrong" punchers, but lack the necessary knowledge. such judgements are limited (usually) to win vs. did not win.

    still, your point now makes perfect sense. causes this skull to wonder, if they are so wrong, why are thier records so right? hahahahahaha!!!

    if your post has been interpreted correctly, mirkofilopovic is thought of as a "right" puncher/striker? figured him to be vastly powerful (kicking) but never saw him as particularly "slick" about it. of course, skill can pale in comparison to being able to knock down buildings with a single kick!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    Well more qualified fans have voiced their opinions on their striking and more than a few are squarely in opposition to mine. I just believe that it's likely that power punches that loop are more appropriate than the stabbing and flicking punches that you throw in boxing. You deliver boxing blows from your balls of your feet, always ready to move, light on your feet. The digging powerfully anchored blows of a Liddell or a Wanderlei leave you in a position to counter takedowns instead of being picked up, pushed into the ropes or cage or taken down.

    Just my observations. I believe that those two fighters and others like them don't win despite their styles. I believe they win because of it.

    Your rating: None
    lucifer_z28's picture

    people say "wrong", its not really wrong if it works, just unorthodox.
    i say do whatever gets the job done.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    absolutely!!! wonder how long it will take unorthodox to become the new orthodox???

    wouldn't that be wild? someone describing the "days of yore" when fighters were all so unorthodox..... hahahahahaha!!!

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    Technically sound & effective are 2 totally different things. Wanderlei & Chuck's punches are sometimes not technically sound but more often than not they're still effective. Cro Cop's punches are both. Nick Diaz actually throws a very sound punch.

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    silent assassin wrote:
    Technically sound & effective are 2 totally different things. Wanderlei & Chuck's punches are sometimes not technically sound but more often than not they're still effective. Cro Cop's punches are both. Nick Diaz actually throws a very sound punch.

    My name is Shaolin Bushido and I endorse this post.;)

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Hey are you getting paid for this endorsement? :cool:

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    Durn! I knew I forgot to add something!

    *ahem*

    I am not being paid for this endorsement.:o

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    Yeah i remember thinking about the technically sound thing as i watched, but as everyone else has said they still Knock out a whole lotta guys....
    for my picks i would put:
    Stand up- Wanderlei (like the power..lol)
    Ground- Dean Lister (i agree with Kibun on his reason..)

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    For the record there was no endorsement for Kibuninc products on that last post. :D

    I do like BJ Penn also but as the thread said only one no fence straddling.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    wanderlei for power. got it. why lister. no reason was given. none necessary, jsut wondering if there is a reason.

    hmmmmm. at some point, will have to begin spelling jsut correctly.

    just. there.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    Kibun I don't know if you remember but I did purchase your first dvd in your series. I mean, how could you forget Shaolin Bushido?(I think that is the name I used. Maybe not.) I e-mailed you too! I love that dvd.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    got some neighbors who offered some opinions. there are three of them.

    #1 likes philbaroni(striking)/carlosnewton(grappling) reasons given are philbaroni really commits to the striking game. a "banger". carlosnewton has an unusual grappling style. very "unorthodox".

    #2 likes mirkofilopovic(striking)/masakazuimanari(grappling) reasons given are mirkofilopovic destroys fighters with left kick. masakazuimanari is jsut SO unusual. win or lose, fun fun to watch.

    #3 likes joselandijons(striking)/davecamarillo(grappling) reasons given are joselandijons sense of humor shows when he fights. he really really enjoys it. davecamarillo because he is "the michaeljordan" or grappling (this is said to be a quote from an unknown source). his submission setups are "really cool".

    all three argued the merits of "thier" fighters and did a lot of fence riding but these are the ones that came through.

    we have watched many fights together and figured more of our picks would match. hahahahahaha!!! only one picked a similar fighter to LSD (joselandijons).

    thanks to silentassassin for starting this thread. has really given plent of food for though. have been reevaluating fights seen and trying to appreciate everything they do. they do alot, win or lose. wow.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    lorenzodamarith wrote:
    hello,

    got some neighbors who offered some opinions. there are three of them.

    #1 likes philbaroni(striking)/carlosnewton(grappling) reasons given are philbaroni really commits to the striking game. a "banger". carlosnewton has an unusual grappling style. very "unorthodox".

    #2 likes mirkofilopovic(striking)/masakazuimanari(grappling) reasons given are mirkofilopovic destroys fighters with left kick. masakazuimanari is jsut SO unusual. win or lose, fun fun to watch.

    #3 likes joselandijons(striking)/davecamarillo(grappling) reasons given are joselandijons sense of humor shows when he fights. he really really enjoys it. davecamarillo because he is "the michaeljordan" or grappling (this is said to be a quote from an unknown source). his submission setups are "really cool".

    all three argued the merits of "thier" fighters and did a lot of fence riding but these are the ones that came through.

    we have watched many fights together and figured more of our picks would match. hahahahahaha!!! only one picked a similar fighter to LSD (joselandijons).

    thanks to silentassassin for starting this thread. has really given plent of food for though. have been reevaluating fights seen and trying to appreciate everything they do. they do alot, win or lose. wow.

    thanks.

    Glad u enjoyed the thread.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    enjoying it, but it has been an eye opener. have never really put any thought into the opinions of others regarding fighters. but it has been somewhat educational to hear the opinions of others and the reasons for them. sort of a "new light". gaining a newfound appreciation for what all these guys (fighters) do. have been wondering how that lorenzodamarith guy will turn out. orthodox, unorthodox, striker, grappler, aggressive, super aggressive, fast, slow... a buffet of possibilities.

    have been labeled "very able student" by the group (school? team? not sure what to call them). definitely going to start watching our group with an eye on some of the points brought up in this thread.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    lorenzodamarith wrote:
    hello,

    enjoying it, but it has been an eye opener. have never really put any thought into the opinions of others regarding fighters. but it has been somewhat educational to hear the opinions of others and the reasons for them. sort of a "new light". gaining a newfound appreciation for what all these guys (fighters) do. have been wondering how that lorenzodamarith guy will turn out. orthodox, unorthodox, striker, grappler, aggressive, super aggressive, fast, slow... a buffet of possibilities.

    have been labeled "very able student" by the group (school? team? not sure what to call them). definitely going to start watching our group with an eye on some of the points brought up in this thread.

    thanks.

    Look deep. U know what style of fighter u will be now if u look inside. Fighters are who they are ( I'm not sure if that makes sense 2 u).

    Technique is developed. Fighters are born. Tyson & Ali for eample fought there way cause that's who they were.

    As far as trainers go, great trainers learn to look at A fighters strong points, weak points, abilities, etc... They will then train them to fit there strongest assets.

    When it's crunchtime whoever the fighter really is on the inside (style, heart, etc...) will show. There is no where to hide the truth when this time comes.

    Have fun on the road of figuring these things out ;) .

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    makes perfect sense. having fun already. when work schedule finally relaxes, will be able to train more regularly (more than once or twice weekly).

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    manpants's picture

    I hope you get to train more often soon Lorenzo. I hate working alot:D

    To the topic: my favorite stand-up would have to go to Genki Sudo! He is just so unorthodox and fun to watch everytime. It seems people have a hard time even knowing how to react sometimes...how do you deal with someone windmilling 4 spinning back-fists straight into a clinch with you?!? Just straight up fun to watch!

    Ground...I would have to say BJ Penn(right now),I have been watching alot of his stuff lately, and he is pretty amazing to me. I like how he flows between guard styles, back and forth from butterfly to rubber and open guards. I appreciate alot of other grapplers games as well, he is just in my head as of late, so I have to go with him. Theres my picks; the outlandish standup stylings of Sudo and the super flexy flow of Penn!

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    thanks to manpants. working less will be amazing!!! have been working the figurative ass off for many years. it will be a refreshing change.

    agreed. genkisudo and bjpenn are awesome. they are both oddballs (stylistically speaking).

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Pres's picture

    Silvia--Because he's stiff as a board and makes me laugh everytime I see him klunk around. He also has one punch knock out power that has to be given a level of respect. On the ground I'd say Marcelo Garcia

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    I was wondering if anyone was going to mention genki sudo, he is one of my favorites too....

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    genkisudo is an exciting fighter. he, takinorigomi and hayatosakurai are favorites!!!

    no substitute for being fun to watch, neh?

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    this makes perfect sense shaolinbushido. perfect sense. showed some of those here your post on this and they seem to agree (they have done some training in various things). never occured to this skull to look at things that way.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    in the stand up game I like Liddell. HE fights from an unorthoradox stance and is a great counter pouncher.

    On the ground I like Dean Lister. His JJ is just really good.

    Your rating: None
    lucifer_z28's picture

    up top i like A. emilianenco(spelling)
    on the ground i like bj penn and shinya aoki mainly because they like to play rubber guard

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    lucifer_z28 wrote:
    up top i like A. emilianenco(spelling)
    on the ground i like bj penn and shinya aoki mainly because they like to play rubber guard

    FENCE RIDING ALERT!!!

    Which ground guy if u could only pick 1?

    Your rating: None
    lucifer_z28's picture

    silent assassin wrote:
    FENCE RIDING ALERT!!!

    Which ground guy if u could only pick 1?

    bj penn
    even though im all kinds of pumped up over aoki finishing that gogoplata:D

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    hey luciferz28? gogoplata? what is this? have seen omaplata (coil lock), is it similar?

    may have asked this once before on one of the threads, but nothing is coming to mind, so apologies if this has been answered before.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    lorenzodamarith wrote:
    hello,

    hey luciferz28? gogoplata? what is this? have seen omaplata (coil lock), is it similar?

    may have asked this once before on one of the threads, but nothing is coming to mind, so apologies if this has been answered before.

    thanks.

    LSD, the gogoplata is a choke that u lock in to the arm & neck. (Example) U are on your back in full guard. U trapped your opponents left hand/arm to your right side/hip. U lift your right leg under your opponents trapped armpit & place the top of your foot/ankle under their neck & pull down on their head. It's more complicated but this is a very short version to give u an idea. I hope this vague explanation helps.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    There are more than one guy that I can appreciate their style. My stand up guy I picked kinda quick but my ground guy was a little harder. Do I go with GNP ala tito,Randy,etc... or a Sub fella ala Penn,Nog,Jacare,etc... But the deal is no fence riding so I'll say ...

    Stand up-- Cro Cop (Very explosive & technical with hands & Feet. Can beat an opponentr with good combinations but has one shot KO capabilities in any 1 shot).

    Ground-- Roger Gracie (This pick may surprise some but Roger is a ground wizard. Strong,technical,fast,etc... He's definitely the total package on the mat).

    I started the thread & realized that I did'nt post an opinion so there it is.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    shoot. almost forgot.... was talking about this thread to an associate in the real world and they have interesting "old school" opinion.

    he is an old man and says his favorites are rockymarciano and karlistaz(karlgotch). in thier times, there were none better. he says he watched many events, but these two were his favorites, because they fought some wars.

    apologies if this opinion does not count (as he is not member of the crowd here). just thought the perspective is cool. had not considered anyone that far back.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    Sounds like he's about a hundred with those picks. Gotch is regarded well and is mainly responsible for all the branches of shooters in Japan today. Not all but many. Marciano ... was a very tough guy. I think he was tougher than he was talented.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    not really well educated about our ancient predecessors, but thought the point of view was nice. it definitely got this skull thinking outside it's current "box"!!

    it even stirred up thoughts about the vr fight thing in rockybalboa movie. would be wild to input fighters from any era and have them fight. bet we would all learn a ton!!!

    course, we would then be living in the matrix, which presents a whole different spin on the world..... hahahaha!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    Shaolin Bushido's picture

    I'm ole skool and my answers are as well. My picks would be the same if I'd been askd this 5 years ago.

    Standing; Ernesto Hoost and on the ground ... Who else but Rickson Gracie?

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    Shaolin Bushido wrote:
    I'm ole skool and my answers are as well. My picks would be the same if I'd been askd this 5 years ago.

    Standing; Ernesto Hoost and on the ground ... Who else but Rickson Gracie?

    Great picks Shaolin Bushido but I forgot to put "current competitors" originally. Sorry bout that. So give it another go.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    thanks to silentassassin for the explaination of "gogoplata". yes. have seen this technique before, your explaination was more than sufficient. jsut never heard the name associated with that technique.

    good picks too. rogergracie also appears to be very tall. how tall is he?

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    The explanation was my pleasure.

    Roger is 6'3"-6'4"ish.

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    The freaks come out at night (and I' not talkin bout underdog). Here I am trying to make sure that my post go to the correct pages (on the mat, off the mat, etc...) and these trolls are posting drugs, erectile disfunction, & all sorts of DUMB SH*T (for lack of a better word).

    Oh well, the Spaminator (Kibuninc) will be round soon enough to off'em.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Ok OK once is enoiugh I killed the spam. Just kidding :D

    Your rating: None
    silent assassin's picture

    The freaks come out at night. Here I am trying to make sure that my post go to the correct pages (on the mat, off the mat, etc...) and these trolls are posting drugs, erectile disfunction, & all sorts of DUMB SH*T (for lack of a better word).

    Oh well, the Spminator (Kibuninc) will be round soon enough to off'em.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    well, old school? then the old school answers would likely be robkaman and rollsgracie.

    nah. they are/were both good, but joselandijons and ronaldosouza are still the favorites.

    hahahahahahahaha!!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    in advance, yes, there may be others who are better, but these guys are just entertaining.

    striking... would definitely be joselandijons!!!! that guy is awesome!!!

    grappling... would be the mighty ronaldosouza!!!! his game is aggressive!!!

    both of these guys are aggressive with a capital "whupdatass"!!!! there is no stalling with these guys. they are both archetypical of what they do.

    so, no fence riding here. these are definite favorites. there may be one or two who can defeat them, but so what... these guys lay the asswhuppin down!!!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
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