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Who here has used BJJ in a street fight?

    Wed, 2007-04-11 00:45 — 21tomlinson

    I know that street fighting is not the point of learning BJJ, but I am nevertheless curious: Has anyone here been forced to use BJJ in a street fight situation? If so, how successful was it for you? Describe the situation? Was it just some guy mouthing off? Some guy trying to put you in the hospital? What techniques did you use? Did you notice that BJJ gave you a significant advantage over your opponent? Any stories would be appreciated ;) Thanks!

    Tagged: On The Mat

    lorenzodamarith's picture

    21tomlinson wrote:
    I know that street fighting is not the point of learning BJJ, but I am nevertheless curious: Has anyone here been forced to use BJJ in a street fight situation? If so, how successful was it for you? Describe the situation? Was it just some guy mouthing off? Some guy trying to put you in the hospital? What techniques did you use? Did you notice that BJJ gave you a significant advantage over your opponent? Any stories would be appreciated ;) Thanks!

    hello,

    21tomlinson.... do not seek stories.... it glamourizes something you should not be wasting your time thinking about. true, there is little technique in a street fight, but most will fall back on thier basic inclinations.

    if you are ever in a real fight, run. if you cannot and are taken to the ground yourself, use jiujitsu to get up and out. that is it.

    most "self defense" methods (including jiujitsu) are intended to give you an extra moment or two. this is the time you need to get away.

    true, there are those who "start things" that you can beat, but don't take the chance, because the second you assume someone isn't really trying to kill you, THAT person will kill you.

    martial arts of any sort will allow you to deal with "an attitude problem", but not someone bent on your death. forget it. run. if you can't run, survive.

    thanks.

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    Anonymous's picture

    I broke someones arm once for bumping into me. Flying armbar. It was beautiful.

    Your rating: None
    ChillFactor's picture

    underdog wrote:
    I broke someones arm once for bumping into me. Flying armbar. It was beautiful.

    Hahaha! How guerrilla jiu jitsu of you!

    KibunInc, I actually taught the RNC to my buddy from Frederick, MD, he said it's perfect for police work because it fast and works on everyone. He said the only thing better is the taser.

    Tomlinson, as I mentioned before, I would never use a closed guard in a street fight. I'll elaborate.

    One, you don't know what could be on the ground, so if you close your guard and he starts pushing you across asphalt or glass or whatever else happens to be on the ground, your back is going to be a mess.

    Two, this brings him face to face with you. The only rule in a street fight is don't lose. He will head butt you, he will bite you, spit in your face, stick his fingers in your eyes, squeeze your trachea, all that wonderful stuff. Street fights are dirty, distance is your friend.

    Three, if he's bigger than you, and you close your guard, he's going to slam you. They don't allow slams in BJJ competitions, but once again, no rules on the street, he'll slam you and bounce your head off the ground like a kid smashing a pumpkin on Halloween. You don't want this to happen. This is a trip to the ER. You get the back of your head smashed into the ground, and it may even kill you. At the least, it will damage your occipital lobe and you're vision will be messed up for weeks, not to mention migraines, bleeding in your striate cortex, and all the fun of vacationing in the intensive care unit.

    Violence is not always the answer, but when it is, it is the only answer. If you find yourself in a street fight, you need to react immediately and decisively. Trust me, I've been in and seen more than my fair share of street fights. Anything can happen. Never underestimate your attacker. You know nothing about him. He could be the most dangerous person you've ever encountered and you wouldn't know that until it's too late. You're first line of defense is to get away and avoid it completely. If that doesn't work, fight like hell, don't hold back at all, and at your first available opportunity, escape. If you're jumped by a group, you're basically screwed. You're only hope is to put the first guy down with a knee to the balls, or some other devastating blow, and take off running like Carl Johnson on crack.

    BJJ is a great addition to a self defense skills set, but (no offense to the die hards), BJJ has specific applications. If you decide to use it, move fast, execute, and pull till the arm breaks or squeeze till he passes out. But don't forget to defend yourself at all times. You never know when someone will pull a knife or a gun. Fight till you can escape, no less, no more.

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    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    agreed chillfactor.

    thanks.

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    Anonymous's picture

    Why thank you!

    Your rating: None
    21tomlinson's picture

    Awesome post Chill Factor. It made me realize how stupid I've been in thinking about how I would apply BJJ in a real fight. All this time I've been having visions of if I was ever attacked, I would just pull him down into my guard and wait for him to stick that arm out so I could swing my leg over his head for that arm bar from the guard and... the end! How stupid of me. I have only been involved in one serious fight in my life and that was in 6th grade, and even from that fight I know that things are completely effed up in a street fight. There's no technique, there's no feeling each other out, none of that. It's just a big huge clusterfock and you can only hope that you come out of it without any serious injuries. I have begun learning BJJ because I want the confidence of knowing that I could handle myself if I was ever forced into a fight. I am certainly not a violent person and I would never go looking for trouble, but BJJ has been something I have sought out just to give the confidence of knowing I could take care of myself in a bad situation. I guess no matter how good I get though, nothing can ever give me 100% of safety.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    21tomlinson wrote:
    All this time I've been having visions of if I was ever attacked.... How stupid of me. I want the confidence of knowing that I could handle myself if I was ever forced into a fight. BJJ has been something I have sought out just to give the confidence of knowing I could take care of myself in a bad situation. I guess no matter how good I get though, nothing can ever give me 100% of safety.

    hello,

    having visions of what you would do. this a waste of time. just train, that is all you can do. dreaming of combat is a waste. confidence is not something taught. it is a decision. you either decide to survive, or you decide not to survive. you would be surprised how often those who "seem most prepared" crumble. you will always feel fear in a fight. this is nature at work. you will either give in, or you will not.

    having a skillset like jiujitsu and muaythai just gives you access to tools you can employ once your decision to survive has been made. these tools will not enable you to make that decision.

    and you are correct. there is no 100% safety.

    be prudent. to prevent this type of thing, be aware of the dangers and opportunities around you. always. if things do happen, do what you must to survive. nothing more or less.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    ChillFactor's picture

    It's not that you can't use BJJ in a fight, it's just that, if you have the choice, never go to your back willingly, and try to stay on top of him.

    When I was at the state police academy, a friend of mine in a simulated exercise, disarmed the instructor, pulled him down, took a knee on belly position, put one arm behind the instructor's head, and grabbed his other sleeve pulling his arm down and choking our instructor into submission. I'm not sure if BJJ has a name for that move, but there's a perfect example of how to use it in a real world situation. You have to react immediately. There's no guard passing or sweeps, you take him down to his back, and immediately apply a choke.

    Basically, all I'm saying is not to rely on BJJ should you find yourself in a streetfight. You should keep off your back at all costs, and take any opportunity to escape, because streetfights, even if they start one on one, rarely stay one on one.

    Your rating: None
    21tomlinson's picture

    Chill Factor:

    A quick comment regarding what you said about the closed guard not being an effective street fighting tactic. I would tend to think that it would be an effective tactic if you had your assailant's posture broken down and you were holding him close to you. This would maybe prevent him from doing some of the things you mentioned and would even enable you to get some strikes in. What do you think?

    Your rating: None
    ChillFactor's picture

    21tomlinson wrote:
    Chill Factor:

    A quick comment regarding what you said about the closed guard not being an effective street fighting tactic. I would tend to think that it would be an effective tactic if you had your assailant's posture broken down and you were holding him close to you. This would maybe prevent him from doing some of the things you mentioned and would even enable you to get some strikes in. What do you think?

    Well, I may not know much about BJJ, but I can speak from experience when it comes to fights. I'll pull from experience on this one.

    Before I even knew what a closed guard was or even knew there was a martial art called Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I employed a closed guard in a fight out of instinct. I remember it very clearly because it was the first time I ever had my nose broken.

    I was attacked by a classmate in the locker room before gym class in 7th grade. He tackled me, and then immediately started punching me in the face. So, I put my arms under his (underhooks) and wrapped my legs around him, and tried to pull him too close to punch me. This worked momentarily, but then he started head butting me, and grinding my head into the locker room floor as he pushed me across the floor. Eventually he broke free, stomped on me a few times, and took my shoes.

    I'm not saying that a closed guard would never work. You may find a situation where it could be perfect, but I would say, as a rule of thumb, never get into a position where you are on your back, and if you do, do everything you can to get off your back. It doesn't take much for someone to pin you down while his buddy kicks you in the face. I think a closed guard could work in a bar fight where you're one on one and your friends outnumber his friends. But, outside, on asphalt, concrete, brick, broken glass, you may still win the fight, but you're going to take alot of damage in the process.

    What kind of situations are you anticipating? Are you in law enforcement or paramilitary?

    Your rating: None
    IAMSCOTTINCALI's picture

    Street Fights

    I have been in a couple but the latest one was while I was attending ITT Tech in SB. I was driving West on Redlands Blvd. just getting off the freeway and making a left when a guy in a piece of crap truck runs me up on the divider. So I flip him off yell as I drive by and he flips me off so whatever go on to school well guy follows me to the school and as I get out he gets in my face. Well there is a bit of yelling and he pushes me I kick his left knee, shoot in double leg him and try to get him to stop. He procedes to throw punches from the bottom and I slipped on some grease in the parking lot, land kinda akwardly and we roll so I am now on my back. Well I grab his wrist slip it under my right leg triangle him and he tries to hit me a couple times as he goes to sleep. So closed quard worked for me in the case. The school cops finally showed up and the guy claims to speak no english but could tell me F you perfectly. LOL

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    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    interesting. you lived because he was not trying to kill you.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    ChillFactor's picture

    lorenzodamarith wrote:
    hello,

    interesting. you lived because he was not trying to kill you.

    thanks.

    Oh I know he wasn't trying to kill me. It was Jr. High, he just wanted my new shoes. You'd kinda have to have gone to that school to understand the environment, but Aliquippa is pretty rough town. It's a very depressed community and there's alot of violence in the town in general.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    well it is good to see it worked out for you. yes, a lot of places are pretty rough.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    jleigh's picture

    I once got to witness Judo/BJJ black belt and legend Tulio Peronne KO some fat dude with a good jab/cross combo in a bar who was staring him down. He then proceeded to turn around and dance with the girl behind him whilst the dude laid flat on his back completely unconscious. Excellent use of BJJ on his part.

    That is where my infatuation with this man began(no homo)

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    you have our permission to be infatuated with tulioperrone. while obviously not romo, you may still have to put up with us snickering behind your back.

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    tulioperrone is well respected in these here parts. had not heard about him decking anyone though. sounds like tulioperrone layed the whuppass down!!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    so, tulioperrone.... now for the important thing.... the chica you danced with.... was she hot? how hot? got pics?

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    C 'Quence's picture

    Okay, how about this...
    If you were to get into a "street fight" now, with yourself from before you started BJJ, and yourself from before was trying to kill you.... who would win?

    Your rating: None
    Sly's picture

    what?????

    I disagree soooo hard with most of these guys!
    most people on the street have no conditioning or real fighting experience.
    most of them drink too much booze and smoke what ever crap they might smoke."a car with no gas can't finish the race". So many people TALK a good fight but when they eventualy do get in an altercation they realize that they are not the superheros they belived
    themselves to be.
    (I do agree that fighting a group of guys is just plain silly , but I have seen people do it with sucsess.(not using bjj of course))

    in bjj you train against a resistiong opponent which is excelent preperation for a real fight! OK so we don't punch in training , most folk don't train at all.
    suplement with some thai or mma if you feel the need for more confidence in your striking.

    all you have to do is look at ufc 1
    royce vs. "fighters"
    most people have absolutly no f*cking clue about bjj (and even if they do they'd have to be good or practice them selves to be efective) just like the first fighters in ufc and they got dealt with.
    BJJ is effective in a real fight!!!

    look on youtube

    realative bjj newbies fighting karate blackbelts and kung fu dudes, what happens????
    and this is against people who train regularly and supposedly "know how to fight"

    also closed guard.
    like someone else said break down thier posture!
    I would definatly use closed guard if it was called for it is an excelent way of controlling your opponent! and you have so many options for attack!
    it would be far easier to impose your jujitsu using a closed guard because as soon as you open it you give them back the ability of free movement.
    dude might rain down fedors on yur head or stomp you or pull out a weapon.
    say he's in your closed guard, reaches for some nasty in his pocket, bam! hit him with a kimura!
    if he tries to slam you OPEN YOUR GUARD! stand up, take down, go for top position, mount, then HAVE FUN.

    use your head!
    don't look for trouble!
    use only if you have to backing away from a fight is the smart thing to do, but not always possible!
    go for top position!
    try and back away twards some grass if possible or into a good space with room to roll.
    Chokes are preferable!
    get in close! and do it fast (while defending effectively)
    so he doesn't have time to reach for weapon or think or have room to punch or kick.
    and practice your takedowns.

    if you have good bjj chances are that a streeet fight is going to be a lot easier. you'll have more options and confidence.

    and visualizing is a very useful tool used by many many champions and worldclass atheletes. it could help you tremendously in a real fight to have the focus and direction to controll the fight.

    once you start grappling with someone there will not be a lot of punches trown not efective anyways (as long as you keep them off balance) and they will try and grapple back but won't be any good.

    if you are inexperiances go with a RNC or guilatene

    I faught a boxer a few months back who thought he was the shit.
    fight want a little something like:
    he came in with some fancy southpaw technical boxing crap threw some jabs probrably to judge distance and set up some big punches, as soon as he stepped in BAM! double leg take down. He looked so shocked! layin they on the ground with no real guard, wasn't anywhere close to being hard to pass. mount one leg up and triangled him while I was still in mount.
    I let him out but could've been mean and knocked him out.

    I had a scuffel with a dude a few weeks ago which some one broke up and I never got a chance to use any bjj but durring the fight I was calm and composed, relaxed and confident because of all the sparring in bjj.
    I knew what I was trying to do stuck to my game plan and was doing really well. hard to punch in the parka coat I had on threw some uppercuts and hooks but only really managed to connect one decent shot and I hit the guy trying to break up the fight! classic. but when we broke and could've carried on the dude walked away like a pussy TOTALY GASSED and I was just getting warmed up.
    Bjj will give you awsome conditioning!
    and I'm a white belt! with just over a years training.

    if it wasn't an efctive martial art for real fights would mma guys bother learning it?
    The gracies sent a chalenge to Mike Tyson and he declined!
    and he is a big mf world champion boxer from the streets of NewYork.
    it might not have been in a bar in jersy but the fact still stands.

    I've been in plenty of fights especialy living in england for the last 10years where hand guns are illegal and the national past time is being drunk and very rude. (I would be much more weary if I thought there was a chance of getting popped but over here people fight much more regularly).
    when me and my friends were younger we used to go into town on the weekends to get drunk and laid and if not laid then have a fight.
    I think we fought more than got :o(
    so I know pretty good what to expect from a fight. (been in over 30 easy)
    before I even knew bjj

    BJJ and being a better fighter actualy made me want to fight less! which is good and it taught me to never underestimate your opponent and that every fight is hard work and very tiering. even small guys have fire in 'em and everyone wants to win.

    but I say BJJ works!
    even on glassy concrete! you might lose some skin but you will probably win the fight and your adrenaline will kill the pain real good.
    all you have to do is watch videos of bjj guys in real fights to know.
    I just couldn't belive half the stuff people posted on this thread, hope I didn't offent anyone too much or rant for to long!

    TRAIN HARD FIGHT EASY :mad:

    Your rating: None
    Sly's picture

    http://www.onthemat.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

    :Dso good I had to post it twice!:D
    :p

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Damn that was a long post, I started to read it then I had to go get a beer and come back to finish reading it. Then I had to read it twice. :D

    Your rating: None
    C 'Quence's picture

    KibunInc wrote:
    Then I had to read it twice. :D

    and didn't even have to scroll back up... damn, sly is good!

    Your rating: None
    Sly's picture

    what?????

    I disagree soooo hard with most of these guys!
    most people on the street have no conditioning or real fighting experience.
    most of them drink too much booze and smoke what ever crap they might smoke."a car with no gas can't finish the race". So many people TALK a good fight but when they eventualy do get in an altercation they realize that they are not the superheros they belived
    themselves to be.
    (I do agree that fighting a group of guys is just plain silly , but I have seen people do it with sucsess.(not using bjj of course))

    in bjj you train against a resistiong opponent which is excelent preperation for a real fight! OK so we don't punch in training , most folk don't train at all.
    suplement with some thai or mma if you feel the need for more confidence in your striking.

    all you have to do is look at ufc 1
    royce vs. "fighters"
    most people have absolutly no f*cking clue about bjj (and even if they do they'd have to be good or practice them selves to be efective) just like the first fighters in ufc and they got dealt with.
    BJJ is effective in a real fight!!!

    look on youtube

    realative bjj newbies fighting karate blackbelts and kung fu dudes, what happens????
    and this is against people who train regularly and supposedly "know how to fight"

    also closed guard.
    like someone else said break down thier posture!
    I would definatly use closed guard if it was called for it is an excelent way of controlling your opponent! and you have so many options for attack!
    it would be far easier to impose your jujitsu using a closed guard because as soon as you open it you give them back the ability of free movement.
    dude might rain down fedors on yur head or stomp you or pull out a weapon.
    say he's in your closed guard, reaches for some nasty in his pocket, bam! hit him with a kimura!
    if he tries to slam you OPEN YOUR GUARD! stand up, take down, go for top position, mount, then HAVE FUN.

    use your head!
    don't look for trouble!
    use only if you have to backing away from a fight is the smart thing to do, but not always possible!
    go for top position!
    try and back away twards some grass if possible or into a good space with room to roll.
    Chokes are preferable!
    get in close! and do it fast (while defending effectively)
    so he doesn't have time to reach for weapon or think or have room to punch or kick.
    and practice your takedowns.

    if you have good bjj chances are that a streeet fight is going to be a lot easier. you'll have more options and confidence.

    and visualizing is a very useful tool used by many many champions and worldclass atheletes. it could help you tremendously in a real fight to have the focus and direction to controll the fight.

    once you start grappling with someone there will not be a lot of punches trown not efective anyways (as long as you keep them off balance) and they will try and grapple back but won't be any good.

    if you are inexperiances go with a RNC or guilatene

    I faught a boxer a few months back who thought he was the shit.
    fight want a little something like:
    he came in with some fancy southpaw technical boxing crap threw some jabs probrably to judge distance and set up some big punches, as soon as he stepped in BAM! double leg take down. He looked so shocked! layin they on the ground with no real guard, wasn't anywhere close to being hard to pass. mount one leg up and triangled him while I was still in mount.
    I let him out but could've been mean and knocked him out.

    I had a scuffel with a dude a few weeks ago which some one broke up and I never got a chance to use any bjj but durring the fight I was calm and composed, relaxed and confident because of all the sparring in bjj.
    I knew what I was trying to do stuck to my game plan and was doing really well. hard to punch in the parka coat I had on threw some uppercuts and hooks but only really managed to connect one decent shot and I hit the guy trying to break up the fight! classic. but when we broke and could've carried on the dude walked away like a pussy TOTALY GASSED and I was just getting warmed up.
    Bjj will give you awsome conditioning!
    and I'm a white belt! with just over a years training.

    if it wasn't an efctive martial art for real fights would mma guys bother learning it?
    The gracies sent a chalenge to Mike Tyson and he declined!
    and he is a big mf world champion boxer from the streets of NewYork.
    it might not have been in a bar in jersy but the fact still stands.

    I've been in plenty of fights especialy living in england for the last 10years where hand guns are illegal and the national past time is being drunk and very rude. (I would be much more weary if I thought there was a chance of getting popped but over here people fight much more regularly).
    when me and my friends were younger we used to go into town on the weekends to get drunk and laid and if not laid then have a fight.
    I think we fought more than got :o(
    so I know pretty good what to expect from a fight. (been in over 30 easy)
    before I even knew bjj

    BJJ and being a better fighter actualy made me want to fight less! which is good and it taught me to never underestimate your opponent and that every fight is hard work and very tiering. even small guys have fire in 'em and everyone wants to win.

    but I say BJJ works!
    even on glassy concrete! you might lose some skin but you will probably win the fight and your adrenaline will kill the pain real good.
    all you have to do is watch videos of bjj guys in real fights to know.
    I just couldn't belive half the stuff people posted on this thread, hope I didn't offent anyone too much or rant for to long!

    TRAIN HARD FIGHT EASY :mad:

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    the present "skilled version" vs. the past "homicidal version"?

    interesting.

    sounds like some humor at work here. anyone feel like battling oneself?

    bevois might like to get some odds. favorite? scotty vs scotty. odds 6 to 1 on scotty to win!!! favorite because despite the carnage of combat, cougars will be hunted!!! post fight odds? 9000 to 1 a cougar gets speared.

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    lorenzodamarith wrote:
    hello,

    interesting. you lived because he was not trying to kill you.

    thanks.

    Interesting, I have told many cops this saying. :cool:

    Your rating: None
    Anonymous's picture

    Just kidding, I've never been in a street fight.

    Your rating: None
    cshudson's picture

    probably wouldnt want to myself go the ground in a street fight i would just try to stab them. :D

    Your rating: None
    21tomlinson's picture

    CShudson:

    That's the bad part about a street fight, you never know what the guy has on him. You could be on the ground trying to work a choke or whatever and then all of a sudden the guy pulls a knife and stabs you with it. Most of these thugs that are going to try and pick a fight you are probably carrying some sort of weapon on them. Either that or his buddies will jump in and start pounding you if you start kicking his ass.

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Yes I have used it but I primarily use the RNC on everybody. It is quick and to the point.

    Your rating: None
    Gerald Rhoades's picture

    KibunInc wrote:
    Yes I have used it but I primarily use the RNC on everybody. It is quick and to the point.

    lol..that sounds like you go on an RNCing frenzy....

    Your rating: None
    KibunInc's picture

    Gerald Rhoades wrote:
    lol..that sounds like you go on an RNCing frenzy....

    It is an allowed technique in Police work and it puts an end to the fight with no one getting hurt. We always provide immediate medical assistance right after.

    Your rating: None
    cshudson's picture

    I would also like to here myself. Some Combat stories outside of the DOJO. :D

    Your rating: None
    ChillFactor's picture

    Well, a few years ago I put a guy in a kimura and I didn't even know what that was at the time, but I realize now that pulling his arm back like that was a BJJ/Judo technique. I think I may have torn his shoulder, but it's not like I stuck around to find out.

    Most street fights end up on the ground. I didn't know BJJ before, but I never used a closed guard, and I wouldn't recommend one. Anytime I ever went to the ground I kept my feet up and threw kicks to keep him from mounting me.

    Most fights in general are over in less than a minute. One guy gains a dominant position quickly and pounds the other guy before he can counter. I grew up with a rough crowd and I have to say, there is virtually no technique in street fighting. It's generally just adrenaline and brutality that wins.

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    ka1rua's picture

    i haven't had a fight in years

    definately be well to thorw them to the floor and kick there face in though

    i don't think some submissions are good if there is more than 1 person though

    Your rating: None
    21tomlinson's picture

    ChillFactor:

    I've never tried it in a street fight situation, but I suppose you're right that putting a guy in your closed guard would not necessarily be advantageous, because the guy isn't just going to cooperate and try to pass your guard. He's going to be trying to punch you in the face, the stomach, the balls, or wherever else he can strike you. I suppose the best strategy if you were to use BJJ in a real fight would be to try get the guy to side control, full mount or to take his back. But then again I don't know because I've never used it in a real fight.

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