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Comparison of BJJ and Sombo Wrestling

    Wed, 2008-01-02 09:20 — GrecoMan

    What is your opinion on their relative merits and faults?

    In my opinion, sombo guys have better takedowns and are more well rounded, but not as good as BJJ guys in matwork.

    BJJ guys are spectacular at groundfighting, but in all the schools i've visited, not many work on takedowns in a significant way.

    I'm not talking style vs style. I am saying, who has the better training methods, and which one do you prefer? And which one is better for MMA?

    Tagged: On The Mat

    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    hmmmmm. training method is question? cambisti tend to train similar to judoka and wrestlers. judo techniques, wrestler conditioning and drilling. players (american anyway) tend to be academic favoring technical precision over conditioning.

    compelling arguement for cambo training method: cambo is more well rounded, better conditioning. mma has shown that one can possess good technique, but without the conditioning, loss is very likely.

    compelling arguement for jiujitsu training method: jiujitsu is more technically precise. mma has shown that one can possess good conditioning, but without technique, loss is very likely.

    in terms of personal practice, technical precision was the first step. conditioning can be developed at any point really. power, explosiveness... same thing. develop them any time. but if technical precision was ignored in the beginning in favor of other attributes, it would have been far more difficult to fix the game later.

    in fairness, cambo is organized far differently. most competitors begin on teams in school (like wrestling). one must try out for these teams. so conditioning and power IS a must. also, like wrestling, the action must progress at a certain pace, hence the 60 second rule on ground work. there was a time when the closed guard was not acceptable in cambo competitions.

    hmmmm. there is a thread around here somewhere that discusses the differences between wrestling and jiujitsu. will try to find it for you.

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    i hope both wrestling and BJJ continue to flourish

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    GrecoMan;15966 wrote:
    i hope both wrestling and BJJ continue to flourish

    hello,

    agreed!!! very very agreed.

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    TapOutCoach's picture

    Hi there,

    I think both sports require specific techniques and training requirements. I have trained BJJ for over 10+years and now I am Head Wrestling Coach in H.S. It is a great opportunity for me to teach these kids about wrestling (which is not as tough as Sambo or Greco) a little of all types of wrestling are in corporated in my classes. I am about to unleash a full training curriculum of BJJ/Submission grappling in the Fall as well. SOOO...with all the work I have put into it I am truly excited about this new venture and would love some advice and ideas. I'll keep you all in the loop of things...

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    TapOutCoach;16440 wrote:
    Hi there,

    I think both sports require specific techniques and training requirements. I have trained BJJ for over 10+years and now I am Head Wrestling Coach in H.S. It is a great opportunity for me to teach these kids about wrestling (which is not as tough as Sambo or Greco) a little of all types of wrestling are in corporated in my classes. I am about to unleash a full training curriculum of BJJ/Submission grappling in the Fall as well. SOOO...with all the work I have put into it I am truly excited about this new venture and would love some advice and ideas. I'll keep you all in the loop of things...

    hello,

    thats great tapoutcoach!! we will be looking foreward to "hearing" about it!! maybe other schools will follow your example. in another thread, gazzy asked about how to go about setting something up over in san diego. this would certainly change the "state of the art", neh?!?!

    thanks.

    Your rating: None
    TapOutCoach's picture

    for sures....thanks and look forward to more help and ideas from you all...

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    integrating wrestling with the grappling arts is a great idea. Good luck to you!

    I think Sombo should be more aggresively promoted in the USA, since it is the third international style(of wrestling) and has tremendous merit. BJJ and Grappling should also be promoted to as many people as possible.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    GrecoMan;17053 wrote:
    integrating wrestling with the grappling arts is a great idea. Good luck to you!

    I think Sombo should be more aggresively promoted in the USA, since it is the third international style(of wrestling) and has tremendous merit. BJJ and Grappling should also be promoted to as many people as possible.

    hello,

    agreed!! here here!!! say it on the mountaintop!!! power to the people!!!!

    wait. ignore that last one. hahahahahahaha!!!

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    kaperisk's picture

    im pretty sure they do not allow chokes in sambo....

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    GrecoMan's picture

    i just trained sombo for the first time last night and had a good time. sport sombo doesn't allow chokes, but in freestyle sambo, practically every submission is allowed (including chokes with or without the gi). Combat sombo is with striking, so it is essentially MMA with a gi on.

    I am officially resigning from BJJ. I am primarily a sombo wrestler now.

    In sombo, I can use my takedowns (my strong suit) and learn submission (my weakness) at the same time. I find judo and BJJ to be too partial one way or the other. No offense.:)

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    lorenzodamarith's picture

    GrecoMan;17165 wrote:
    i just trained sombo for the first time last night and had a good time. sport sombo doesn't allow chokes, but in freestyle sambo, practically every submission is allowed (including chokes with or without the gi). Combat sombo is with striking, so it is essentially MMA with a gi on.

    I am officially resigning from BJJ. I am primarily a sombo wrestler now.

    In sombo, I can use my takedowns (my strong suit) and learn submission (my weakness) at the same time. I find judo and BJJ to be too partial one way or the other. No offense.:)

    hello,

    allright grecoman. sounds like you had a good time!! how do the classes run out there? do they follow the same "format" as jiujitsu? if they are different, how are they different?

    jiujitsu and judo can be a bit partial, but the instructor is just relying on what they know. it seems as though ever instructor familiar with both, will incorporate them into most classes.

    anyway, let us know how it goes. sounds like it will be some good stuff to start threads with. and as you have seen, lsd is biologically incapable of passing up a thread!!!!!

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    lucifer_z28's picture

    some bjj schools overlook stand up, but many do not where i train we work takedowns almost every class and every class when a tourney is coming up.
    in sombo you will prolly never get where you excel on the ground...if your a wrestsler for your first year all you should do is go off your back then once you have a solid sub game incorporate your wrestling ability into your game and you will be a stud...trust me stick with bjj

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    Are you saying I should cross-train in BJJ? The Sombo class is only 1x week, so I need to stay in shape somehow, and i'm not going to swim everyday. I will contemplate training with Soca some more.......

    lorenzo, the sombo class is mostly breafkalls, throwing repetitions, learning techniques in sequences, and then 'freestyle' or 'randori'. But in sombo, they always start standing and it always go until a submission or until time runs out. I love training that way!

    However, I realize my throwing is better than my submission, so maybe I should keep training with Soca in addition, so I can improve my subs faster. I must ponder the situation.........

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    GrecoMan;17232 wrote:
    breafkalls

    hello,

    oh yes!! breafkalls are very important!!! hahahahahahahaha.

    still, it sounds like a lot of fun. too bad it is only one day weekly. maybe you could train in cambo and jiujitsu. it seems like they would be complimentary.

    our crew does judo with jiujitsu. and wrestling too. just the takedowns, and mount control since none of us do wrestling competitions.

    we get the whole shootin match. every class has some judo/wrestling. some classes more than others. and we spar a bit every session.

    always working on fundamentals. always a lot of cardio in the warmup too.

    since you do cambo, you may have more access to leg attacks, though. would like to work on that aspect a lot more.

    in your cambo class, are you allowed closed guard? had seen some competetions some time back. apparently, usage of closed guard was not allowed. any idea about this?

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    what i am now doing is freestyle sambo, which is an american variant of sport sambo, and more things are allowed, like closed guard, chokes/strangles, leglocks. The only thing that is really taboo is the heel hook, because that can cause much harm.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    sounds good. do you train heel hooks? just not used in competition? or do your crew avoid them completely?

    seems like every school, organization and federation has thier preference.

    also wondering, do you find any difficulty going from barefoot (jiujitsu) to wearing the shoes (cambo)? do you have to change anything? anything easier? harder?

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    from my one experience of sombo training, it seems that everyone knows how and when to apply a heel hook, but we dont use them in the actual randori.

    i wore my wrestling shoes on thursday night, and i felt much better in them than in all my years playing judo barefoot. The shoes give me much better traction and stability. Just my opinion.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    hello,

    hmmmm. still barefoot training with this crew. had a good night. did judo sparring (randori). won a bit more often than lost. however, the losses were ....... how shall we say...... "not lethal". yes. didn't die! thought about it though!

    hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    would you understand the phrase "became one with the wall?"

    would you understand the phrase "who left all this gravity laying around on this amazingly hard floor?"

    would you understand the phrase "didn't know you could fit THAT up there!"

    yep. asswhuppins had by all. some of us a little more than others. maybe some shoes would help?

    hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    kaperisk's picture

    lorenzodamarith;17316 wrote:
    hello,

    hmmmm. still barefoot training with this crew. had a good night. did judo sparring (randori). won a bit more often than lost. however, the losses were ....... how shall we say...... "not lethal". yes. didn't die! thought about it though!

    hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    would you understand the phrase "became one with the wall?"

    would you understand the phrase "who left all this gravity laying around on this amazingly hard floor?"

    would you understand the phrase "didn't know you could fit THAT up there!"

    yep. asswhuppins had by all. some of us a little more than others. maybe some shoes would help?

    hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    thanks

    omg "who left all this gravity laying around"!!!!!!!! classic loloolol oh god have i been there before.

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    kaperisk;17424 wrote:
    omg "who left all this gravity laying around"!!!!!!!! classic loloolol oh god have i been there before.

    hello,

    oh yeah!!! it wouldn't be so bad, except when there is gravity laying around, there is A LOT of it.

    then one hits the floor so hard, the human body is momentarily transformed to a gooey, gelatinous mass, as if molecular cohesion itself is being threatened.......

    good times.... good times......

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    i am going to train with Soca today, even though it is sunday, at his open mat class. sombo 1x week doesn't cut it, although i consider myself a thrower not a grappler yet. I think twice a week of BJJ and once a week of Sombo is enough training.

    shoes might help you move faster in the standup randori. And remember to practice your breakfalls, so you get over the danger of falling improperly. And don't do what judoka do, which is, twist out of the throw to avoid landing on your back (and losing the match). Take the fall on your back and continue in newaza. :cool:

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    GrecoMan;17385 wrote:
    And don't do what judoka do, which is, twist out of the throw to avoid landing on your back (and losing the match). Take the fall on your back and continue in newaza. :cool:

    hello,

    mucho thank you for the tip. hadn't thought about that before. but now that you mention it, yeah, that does happen a bit.

    better watch it. maybe investing in the guerilla jiujitsu/position impossible package is a good way to go.

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    i just got back from Soca BJJ. I think I have worked out the best balance between sombo and BJJ.

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    lorenzodamarith's picture

    GrecoMan;17389 wrote:
    i just got back from Soca BJJ. I think I have worked out the best balance between sombo and BJJ.

    hello,

    sounds somewhat like you have achieved zen.

    cooooooooooooooool.

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    your welcome, lorenzo.

    i see the BJJ as conditioning and extra newaza for my sombo wrestling. I love the concept of sombo being well balanced between throws and submissions.

    to me, traditional judo is a thing of the past!:eek:

    Your rating: None
    lorenzodamarith's picture

    GrecoMan;17406 wrote:
    your welcome, lorenzo.

    i see the BJJ as conditioning and extra newaza for my sombo wrestling. I love the concept of sombo being well balanced between throws and submissions.

    to me, traditional judo is a thing of the past!:eek:

    hello,

    sure sounds like you are on to something good. just got back from training. did a lot of judo/jiujitsu. it was tough. different from "standard judo". it was rough. it seems a bit more logical in some ways than "standard judo".

    still, haven't tried a kurtka yet. bet there are some options that become available with those, neh?

    thanks

    Your rating: None
    GrecoMan's picture

    the throwing is similar to judo, but there is more danger of leg takedowns, since they are permitted as well in sombo. when i randori, i try to use my judo throws, but it doesn't always work the way i want it to!

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    lorenzodamarith's picture

    lucifer_z28;17189 wrote:
    some bjj schools overlook stand up, but many do not where i train we work takedowns almost every class and every class when a tourney is coming up.
    in sombo you will prolly never get where you excel on the ground...if your a wrestsler for your first year all you should do is go off your back then once you have a solid sub game incorporate your wrestling ability into your game and you will be a stud...trust me stick with bjj

    hello,

    sounds like you have a pretty good school. curious, when you say takedowns, to you mean wrestling takedowns? judo throws and sweeps? all of the above?

    seems like there are several different definitions of takedowns. just trying to build a mental model of what your classes might look like.

    thanks

    Your rating: None
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